Another thing that really struck me about this movie, especially given when it was released (1971), is the director's treatment of the women's lives, which I thought was unusually sensitive. Each of the three older women had some cross to bear and did so with a certain dignity, even if that meant bucking the "morality" of the time. Each had been fully disillusioned. Each was extremely nurturing in her own way. And moreover, the director made sure that we knew that they all liked and respected one another (which impressed me as a sort of nod to the "sisterhood is powerful" sentiment of the women's movement of the early '70s).Do you think Jacy was made in their mold, or is she fundamentally different? All three of them, including her own mother, badmouth her at various points ...
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I think her inclusion in the sisterhood is coming. There is quite a bit of background on what each of the three women were like when they were younger, and they all had a lot of maturing and disillusionment to go through. I think Jacy, with all of her strengths, will grow up to be strong, nurturing, and respectful of her peers and those who came before.
But maybe that's my own hopeful romanticism talking.
I don’t agree. Jacy, like Duane, is the type to leave town and not come back. She might fail to have a successful life, but her failures will be in a bigger space and won’t be shared and observed by the close presence that the three women of the earlier generation had.
I think Sonny's talk with Duana about how Jaycee just wanted to stay in Dallas was pretty telling. She wouldn't be back.
I thought there was something fundamentally meaner and harder about Jaycee. But I also liked how she (among other characters) was never an easy read. I thought I had her figured out at first, that she loved Duane but would be forced to marry a rich guy. Instead, her mother was pushing college. Then she consents to join that strange pool party, even though she didn't seem like she'd bow to peer pressure. Then she doesn't seem to love Duane after all, but uses him to get rid of her virginity. Her character and motives kept shifting for me, but it made the movie more interesting because I never guessed what would happen next.
And Jacy's mom was my favorite character. At first, I thought she'd be the Machiavellian drunk mother who ruins her daughter's life, but she had such interesting depth to her even without Sam the Lion's tale (I figured that was her as he told it to Sonny.) And despite the dreary sex kc posted about, I thought the scene were Jacy's mom snatches the hired hand away from his date for a turn around the dance floor was one of the most sexually charged moments in the movie. What a perfect, unapologetic woman of the world!
My favorite was Genevieve. I was impressed that a character with such little screen time could be so deep. What I particularly liked was the nebulous attraction between her and Sonny—they seemed to understand each other without having to talk too much. I think that Genevieve senses that Sonny isn’t going to be lucky. He isn’t going to strike it rich; he isn’t going to escape into the wider world. He should tend his relationship with Ruth because it might be the best thing in his whole life.
I agree about Jacy, cl. I think she was harder somehow, more selfish. She has a lot of character, but there's a real sense of looking out for No. 1, which seems either absent or more muted in the other women. (I really loved how those three women respected one another ... there was none of the gossiping and backbiting that you'd expect in a small town). Maybe the difference is attributable to Jacy's having grown up rich, unlike the other women.
I also really loved how she jumped naked into the swimming pool and discovered that she had ruined the wristwatch that Duane gave her — like time stopped, the old life stopped — when she made that plunge.
I agree that Jacy is likely different for having grown up rich and pampered, and I would guess that her grooming by her mother was quite different from what other girls were told.
I loved Genevieve, too, dw. She was a fantastic moral compass for Sonny.
Jacy is certainly the most alert and smartest of the kids. Your comment about her realizing that without the structure of high school she would have to “invent her own drama” is right on the mark. She sees how bored her mother is and doesn’t want that life. She quickly realizes how easily she can manipulate men and takes a cruel delight in doing so. The scene with the watch was very good. At first she seems like she will be upset having ruined something important to her, but right away she realizes that Duane and his gift are disposable—other men will make other offerings. It is a moment of no turning back.
The contrast between Jacy and her mom puts the mother in a better light. The mother doesn’t wish anybody ill and tries to find her own fun without hurting others.
I felt like the waitress and the boy had strong sexual undertones to their interactions. That character seemed to ooze sexuality.
And, for what it's worth, I still disagree about the girl. Her personality was still forming, and I see no reason that she won't end up a lot like the three women. She was immature, and a lot of the inconsistencies that cl pointed out are due to the film taking place during an early stage of a maturation process for her.
How old was her mom when she "grew up" (in the words of Sam)? I think the mom had been older than the girl.
The waitress oozed sexuality?! Or Sonny did?
I thought the waitress looked tired as hell, dead on her feet, listless posture, like the last thing on her mind was tending to some man's carnal needs. Sonny seemed to be looking her up and down a couple of times, but that's a pretty typical high school boy way to treat women, isn't it?
I thought her relationship to him was mostly maternal, or sort of like a big sister. I don't buy that she had ANY sexual interest in him.
I think you have something with it maybe being too early to judge Jacy. That's why I posed the question in the first place. I couldn't decide, but the more I consider it, the more I think she's fundamentally different, as cl says. I mean, you can sort of see Sonny's and Duane's emerging goodness and maturity, even though they're still quite young — their essential character is in place. I think we see it in Sonny when Ruth is yelling at him (he recognizes the pain he caused her; he looks beyond his own pain — it's a movement away from selfishness, toward becoming a man). And we see it in Duane with his finally forgiving Sonny, in recognizing that he would have behaved the same, in recognizing that Jacy is NEVER going to marry him. But I don't see any incipient letting go of selfishness — of growing up — in Jacy.
Am I missing something?
Sorry that I didn't use any character names in my last comment -- I was afraid of getting some wrong or at least misspelling them.
Yes, I thought Genevieve oozed sexuality. I'm not sure what it was, but something about her interactions with Sonny (maybe the fact that she seemed so accepting and even inviting of his hungry eyes) made me think several times that there was a good possibility of them hooking up.
I'm not sure what else gave that impression -- oddly enough, I'm thinking maybe the strange posture (which seems common among waitresses of a certain age) was a part of it. And maybe I saw something that wasn't supposed to be there, since I personally thought the character was attractive.
And as far as Jacy is concerned, I think I've finally figured out the discrepancy between what I think and what the rest of you think. I'm extrapolating beyond what is shown -- in other words, when asked whether it would be possible for her to turn out a certain way, the answer from me would almost always be yes, because I think her character development is not set in a certain direction at the end of the film. I think many paths are still open to her. I don't think the film hinted that she would end up like the women, but I don't think it cut off that possibility, either.
But I could be wrong. There seem to be a lot of details that I missed (like the importance of the watch -- I had forgotten that it was a gift, so I thought it strange and meaningless that the film stopped for a moment to focus on it).
Working with what I saw in the film, I thought Jacy would not develop into much in maturity. She exhibited too many disturbing qualities ... not just deceiving but manipulating Duane (in the third-base-and-run scene), disregard for the watch, taking such obvious delight in dumping Duane, seducing her mother's lover, toying with Sonny and marrying him for kicks. She treated everybody around her like that cat she knocked off her bed. That's not immaturity; that's flawed character.
I agree, cl. If we look at Lois, for example, we're told that her immaturity was "wildness": having a torrid affair, skinny-dipping, riding horses through the fishing hole. Nothing mean-spirited or manipulative.
The cat! George cackled when he saw that. He, too, thought it was very telling. (Sorry to speak for you, G, but someone's got to do it.)
One thing about Jacy is that we don't see her with any friends. We just see her with various men, who largely like her for physical reasons. Even Sonny, the most sensitive of them, comments that he's pursuing Jacy because she's "prettier" than Ruth. Her prettiness is like a shiny bauble, something to be possessed, then by some — such as Abilene and the pool party guy — tossed aside. While her manipulations go overboard (I agree that her character is flawed, not just immature), I had a sort of grudging respect for her that she did not let herself become a passive thing of prey for all the men who would feed on her without giving her anything in return (not even an orgasm!). So she's on offense sometimes with the men — as the best defense — and that may not be the best relationship to judge her in.
Her other relationship is with her mom, and we can't tell a lot from that because it's inherently unequal and naturally contains elements of opposition and rebellion.
The only friends she appears to have are the girls who rush into the motel room to see what the sex was like. And she lies to them, or at least misleads them. She has a big case of pretty-girl syndrome, where all the girls are prone to talking about her and being jealous, and yet they seem to want to be like her.
So part of the problem in judging her is that she stands alone. But then maybe she stands alone for a reason, i.e., nasty character flaws.
Ben, I think when Genevieve "caught" Sonny looking at her she was more indulging the look than "inviting" it. It's like she was saying, "I know you got sexual curiosity and I don't hold that against you." I think she also registered a sort of sad awareness that this boy who she had seen grow up was becoming a man like all the men whose stares she no doubt constantly endured while schlepping their food.
I’d put it somewhere between what kc and Ben say. Elsewhere she has a line about how sure she would have liked to strike it rich, but she shows no bitterness that she didn’t. She has a down to earth practicality. So while I don’t think she entertains the idea of an affair with Sonny, she does seem to be looking back to the sexual intensity of her own youth with the same wistful “oh well” that she has about wealth.
Yes, of course. I don't think her being a bit wistful about her own youth is incompatible with what I said. You can be sort of flattered that a young, good-looking guy is giving you the once-over but still have a fundamentally maternal relationship with him. I think her warning him against Jacy, for instance, arises much more out of a sense of protection than jealousy.
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